GETTING HYPED FOR MAYWEATHER-MARQUEZ
I have a question on the P4P rankings, why the hell is Nonito Donaire so high on the list? Before his KO of the Raging Bull, he fought only C-listers at best or just straight up cans. He hasn't done that much since, either. I don't see him being that elite and would put alot of fighters ahead of him, why not JuanMa or Artie Abraham? or at least put Cotto ahead of him, he's fought and beat elite fighters for the last few years, I can't think of many fighters with a better record for level of opposition that Cotto.
Just would like your perspective, I think he's good, just not THAT good. He needs a real test IMO before even thinking about P4P, much less ahead of Cotto, Caballero and P-Will.
Keep up the good work, especially with the Fight Night Club shows at Club Nokia. — Hector from Orlando
Thanks. I’m enjoying the Fight Night Club experience and I’m happy to hear that so many fans are too.
I think Donaire got a big push up the pound-for-pound ladder because of the status Darchinyan earned AFTER he was KTFO by the Filipino Flash. Darch Vader’s victories over Dmitry Kirillov, Cristian Mijares, and Jorge Arce in a five-month span put him in everyone’s top P4P 10. The thinking (I think) was that Donaire’s had a dominant win over Darchinyan, and he’s crazy talented with a buttload of potential (as he showed in wiping out Raul Martinez), so he should be placed higher than the Armenian assassin. I don’t subscribe to that that logic, but a lot of people do.
Back when I used to put out a semi-regular P4P list on MaxBoxing, I recall causing an uproar by ranking Diego Corrales over Floyd Mayweather in mid-2005. Fans (and some media members) protested, telling me that I COULDN’T rank Corrales over Mayweather because of the one-sided loss Chico had suffered to Floyd 4½ years earlier. I simply told them that was then, this is now. At the time Corrales had consecutive wins over Joel Casamayor, a then-undefeated Acelino Freitas, and Jose Luis Castillo in that incredible slugfest that was their first encounter. Meanwhile Mayweather was feasting on ‘Chop Chop’ Corley, Henry Bruseles and Arturo Gatti (a great warrior but not in Casamayor or Castillo’s class).
Personally, I don’t think Caballero or Donaire should be in the P4P top 10.
I’m glad that an article I wrote is able to help (along with a well-produced documentary series) elicit anticipation of what is a perplexing matchup. I sincerely hope the fight doesn’t disappoint us both. But I think that Marquez’s mettle will make it a compelling bout even if Mayweather elects to play it safe once the bell rings. We’ll see if the added weight JMM is carrying detracts from his stamina. I think Marquez’s best rounds of the bout could come late, as it did versus the crafty Casamayor.
Just read your article on the important questions surrounding the Maywether-Marquez fight. I thought you broke everything down perfectly and with an impartial view, though I'm sure you will get some email claiming otherwise. I agree that the Jones-Trindad comparisons don't stick for all of the reasons you stated and the fact that I just can't envision Floyd standing directly in front of Marquez and letting him tee-off. For the life of me though I can't read this fight. I scoff at those who see this as a total squash, yet believing that styles make fights, I think this would be a bad match-up for Marquez at say 140, much less 144-147. History tells us to expect the unexpected (Holmes-Spinks, De La Hoya-Pacquiao, Hagler-Leonard) but in those instances the significantly bigger men were clearly on the decline and none where as close to their prime as Floyd is now. Try as I might, I can't recall an elite/arguably top fighter in the sport coming out on the short end with such a physical advantage. — Tom G.
Agreed. There’s no doubt that Mayweather must be considered a prohibitive favorite over Marquez, which is why an upset would be so significant for the Mexican technician. He’s going against a master boxer who has the edge in age, size, and speed.
In my opinion, a victory over Mayweather would clearly propel Marquez beyond his Mexican featherweight contemporaries — Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales — and put him in the company of Salvador Sanchez and Julio Cesar Chavez.
Thanks for the kind words on the Ten Crucial Questions column. It’s received a lot of complimentary feedback but you better believe that I’ve also received more than a few emails from fans who think that article just further demonstrated my bias against Mayweather and general lack of boxing knowledge.
What can you do?
ROOTING FOR JMM
Great article on the upcoming Mayweather vs. Marquez showdown. The questions you provided are unquestionably big factors. I'm rooting for Marquez, I been a fan of his even before he was recognized and truly respected. I hate the post-lightweight Mayweather. At least he fought everybody back at 130-135, which made his arrogance somewhat tolerable.
Your article actually made me think of what would had happened if Marquez vs. Mayweather fought at 130 pounds, when Mayweather was possibly at his best and when Marquez was one of the great featherweights. I still believe Mayweather would had been the favorite, but the odds would had been close. I know something about that mythical match that I am not sure about the upcoming one: Marquez would had given Mayweather hell, and it would had been a fantastic fight! — Uly
I disagree with your theory on a 130-pound mythical matchup between Mayweather and Marquez for two reasons:
1. I think the 130-pound version of Mayweather is MUCH better than the welterweight version. He didn’t just have phenomenal speed and reflexes at junior lightweight, he has above-average power and much higher punch output than he does now.
2. Marquez was almost TOO sharp (apologies to Mark Johnson) at featherweight; and his patience, poise and attention to the finer points of boxing often sucked the entertainment value out of his fights. His decisions against Victor Polo and Orlando Salido are a perfect illustrations of this. Even his stoppages of the rugged likes of Robbie Peden and Marcos Licona were so technically proficient that they lacked intensity.
And though Mayweather let his hands go more often at 130 pounds than he does now, when got in the ring with a fighter who could take his heat he fell back on his father’s defensive teachings and often put on mind-numbingly boring 12-round clinics. His bouts with Carlos Rios and Goyo Vargas are examples of this. So I seriously doubt that a 130-pound Mayweather-Marquez showdown would have been a “fantastic fight”.
The heavier Mayweather is sharp as ever, but not as mobile or busy as the lighter-weight version, which gives Marquez a chance to get his licks in. And the recent version of Marquez is more offensive minded and less defensive, which I believe will help make their welterweight fight fun to watch (at least in spots).
Thanks for the nice words about the column.
Roger, I’ve been around world-class professional boxers for almost 20 years and I’ve covered the sport for close to 15, so I think I know when a fighter has uncommon hand speed. Both Mayweather and Pacquiao have it. Who’s faster? I don’t know. The only way to find out is if they fight. However, I think their speed is comparable and that opinion comes from having watched both men ply their craft up close for many years. That’s what I believe and that what I’m sticking with and I really don’t care if I have your confidence or not.
HAND SPEED II
We will see.
I think the layoff helped Mayweather’s chronically sore hands heal to an extent.
I don’t know if that piss-drinking routine of Marquez’s is fake or not but I wish I didn’t see him do that. That was just gross. HBO should have put that scene in the description for the second installment of this 24/7 series: “Floyd Mayweather reunites with his father, while Juan Manuel Marquez drinks his own urine (seriously, folks, be warned: the dude actually guzzles his own piss).”
Berstain is full of s__t but he didn’t publicly state that his fighter is slow. That’s just gym hearsay that he’s thinks Marquez is too slow to compete with Mayweather. Publicly, he says that JMM’s speed is on point. I don’t believe that but we’ll find out soon enough.
PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE?
Dougie, come on man! Your personal feelings towards Floyd Mayweather the man are influencing your opinions on Mayweather the fighter and it's getting ridiculous! According to you 'Money' took ''the path of least resistance'' after the Castillo fights. How, by fighting Oscar De La Hoya at the weight class of De La Hoya’s choice, 154, and outclassing him over the final 4 rounds? Or maybe by beating Carlos Baldomir, the linear welterweight champion? Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao are by far the best two fighters of the decade, but to listen to you you'd think Floyd been protected like Amir Khan.
Speaking of Khan, it seems like you guys in America are much more impressed with him than people here in the UK. Most people I speak to view Khan as an example of what a top promoter and matchmaker can do for you! Since getting brutally stretched inside a minute by Breidis Prescott the guy hasn't been in with anyone resembling a puncher at either 135 or 140, but has cherry picked a title and according to the WBA is a world champion! Thank God for 'The Ring' title! What do you think Doug, is calling him Amere Con overly harsh? — Ben, UK
I’d say you’re bias against Khan and Warren are influencing your opinions on the 22-year-old junior welter titleholder. I think Khan is one of the more naturally gifted young fighters I’ve ever seen train and I believe he proved something by nearly shutting out Andreas Kotelnik. Nobody else has done that, including Junior Witter and Marcos Maidana.
I never said Mayweather was “protected”. I think he was very careful about who he got in the ring with following those tough fights with Castillo in 2002. The version of De La Hoya Mayweather faced was THE RING’s fifth-rated junior middleweight at the time. He wasn’t fighting the pound-for-pound version that Felix Trinidad and Shane Mosley fought in ‘99 and 2000, so calm down. Mayweather narrowly outpointed a faded veteran. And why even bring up Baldomir? I don’t care if he was the linear heavyweight champ, he SUCKED! That no-power-havin’ plodder was a Zab Judah creation. Period.
JMM CAME FROM BEHIND VS. DIAZ?
This is from your 10 questions story:
“Marquez was coming off a performance (his come-for-behind KO of Juan Diaz)”
You sure you seen this fight? To be honest it was a boxing lesson but not as mean as Roy Jones vs Lacy. — Philip
Are YOU sure you watched the fight? I was ringside, buster. I don’t care what you or anyone else think you perceived, Marquez — who I have the UTMOST respect for — got hammered in the first four rounds versus Diaz. Yes, he did his share of damage in the early rounds, too, but this was not a boxing clinic like McGirt over Brown or Whitaker over Chavez. JMM took some serious lumps and was shook down to his heels on more than one occasion.
EAST COAST VS. WEST COAST, HOLLA!
I am torn between ordering the upcoming PPVs (Pac-Cotto or M v. M), I would appreciate if you could drop a few pearls of wisdom on the subject. I can probably only afford one of them – and I don't see a reason not to favor Pac-Cotto over the M&M's. Yeah the undercard will be worse – but not THAT much worse. Juarez never excited me, and the outcome of the rematch is needed, but it's not compelling. It will probably be another very close affair, and possibly a more boring one. And I hate the idea of giving even one penny of mine to Mayweather, no matter how much I would love for him to lose and how much respect I have for Marquez.
First, watching that V-Klit clip with your article made my head hurt – so I can't imagine what poor Corey Sanders must have felt after the fight. Ditto Danny Williams. That's first class brain damage right there!
Finally, Dan Rafael was recently asked about a possible beef with you – which he denied. I wouldn't say I am his #1 fan, but I do ultimately think he is a positive force in our small world of boxing, so I don't want to say negative about him, either. However, I thought it would be great if you guys did start at least a fake old school East Coast v. West Coast beef. You are even a little bit like 2Pac, and Dan certainly has some things in common with Biggie. And then you can meet in the ring for the ultimate showdown! I guess I am anticipating a great boxing season that's coming up – I even want the writers to fight. — B., NYC
Um yeah, you need to settle down a bit, B. We’ve got plenty of quality matchups this fall and winter (Cotto-Pacquiao, Abraham-Taylor, etc.). Nobody needs to see Dougie Fresh vs. the Notorious D.A.N square off in the ring. All kidding aside, I like Dan and I respect his work. He’s a press row deadline writer, one of the best — if the the best — reporters in the sport, and very knowledgeable about the top prospects and world-class boxers on the international scene. Like you said, he’s good for the sport. Honestly, I don’t know where any rumor of our not getting along came from but I can assure you that I have no beef with ANY fellow boxing writer. Seriously. Ask around.
Just thinking about what Klitschko did to Williams makes my head hurt. And I actually picked Danny to win that one. (Damn!)
It doesn’t sound like your THAT torn between the Mayweather-Marquez and Cotto-Pacquiao PPV shows. It sounds like you’re leaning (heavily) towards the Cotto-PacMan showdown for a variety of reasons. That’s cool. You might want to tune in kind of late to bypass that Fight of the Year candidate (can you feel the sarcasm?) between Daniel Santos and Yuri Foreman, but I doubt the main event will disappoint.
To be honest I have NO IDEA what to expect with Mayweather-Marquez, which makes the matchup fascinating in a way. I’ll have butterflies before they come out for the first round, not because I’m expecting fireworks, but because I don’t know what’s going to transpire.
I FOUND YOU DOUGIE FRESH!
Thanks for writing in, Lonnie. It’s always nice to get emails of fans from my beloved Buckeye State. I’m glad you found me.
Believe it or not I agree with you that Mayweather would probably beat most of the fighters who present dangerous challenges to him (Pacquiao, Cotto, Mosley, and Margarito before the TJ Tornado was busted). That’s the most frustrating thing about Floyd.
I’m going to write about this in more detail in my Thursday column, so thanks for bringing up the subject.
Dougie can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org