WTF? Fighters are supposed to be "nice" to each other in the ring now? Holding hands and kissing? Is this boxing or manlove? I can't believe everybody is feeling sorry for Victor Ortiz. He got what he got! He committed several headbutts throughout the fight and threw and landed many elbows and forearms, disguised as short right hooks. He already KISSED him, hugged him, apologized to him, how long should that last? Three more rounds, 8 rounds, should they get a room after the fight? Should Floyd have let his guard down feeling sorry and liking the young man and let him continue headbutting, elbowing, trying to take HIS head off? Both guys were literally trying to knock the other man unconscious. You can't fault Floyd for punching him in the mouth, it is his fault for getting KTFO from it. Did you see the look in Floyd's eyes when he came toward him? It was extreme rage! Why would you act like a sheep?
Man, f__k Ortiz. Fighters punch out of the break all the time. He INTENDED to foul Floyd and hurt him, just because he wants to act warm and cuddly afterwards does not mean they are not in a fight anymore! For a guy who loves violence as much as you do, I wouldn't imagine that you would be so sensitive to Ortiz.
I know you don't care for Floyd, I admire his skills, he's not my girlfriend. He was putting on a clinic and no, he was not hurt, he slipped damn near everyone of those punches in the combo and THAT's why Ortiz jumped on with his head. Like YOU said, you feel Ortiz was going to CONTINUE BLATANT fouls until he was DQ'd, don't you think Mayweather knew it too that he was being dirty in there? It was a matter of time, Floyd was going to KTFO, however, I do have to admit, I was not happy with the way it ended. I would have much preferred the bout ended organically, without controversy and it would have enhanced Mayweather even more, without the focus being on a supposed questionable KO.
But, it was on CNN this morning, and I have NEVER seen boxing coverage on American Morning on CNN!!!! — JCB
You watch American Morning on CNN?
Anyway, I’m not saying that I wanted Mayweather to be “nice.” What I stated in Monday’s mailbag is that it would have been nice if Mayweather acted like the mature professional who was in control of the fight and not resorted to the cheap shot. Just because Ortiz is mentally and emotionally unraveling before his eyes doesn’t mean that he has to stoop to an unprofessional level as well. It would have been “nice” if a mega-fight could actually live up to the hype and not end in a disappointing, eventful bout or an embarrassing spectacle.
I absolutely crave violence. And I have no problem with boxers who are not nice people. Some of my favorite fighters of the past 20 years are mean S.O.Bs with frightening tempers in and out of the ring (Terry Norris, James Toney, and the late Diego Corrales and Edwin Valero, just to name a few). I don’t have a problem with a fighter retaliating against blatant fouls if the referee isn’t doing anything about it. But Ortiz was immediately penalized a point after the leaping headbutt and the guy who docked him the point just happens to be the most officious referee in the business. There was no way Ortiz would have butted Mayweather again, unless he wanted to get disqualified (because you know Joe Cortez would have DQ’d him in a New York second; this is the dude who DQ’d Humberto Soto for that grazing punch landed on a semi-grounded Francisco Lorenzo). And if Ortiz had done that then the loss would have all been on him; nobody would be able to blame or deride Mayweather for anything.
I don’t feel sorry for Ortiz, I just don’t like what Mayweather did. I didn’t like what Norris did when he got himself DQ’d twice against Luis Santana, even though the Dominican spoiler probably did some acting in hitting the deck after absorbing the foul shots. Why? Because Norris didn’t need to do that to beat a guy like Santana. Mayweather didn’t need to sucker punch Ortiz to win that fight. Doing so made him and boxing look bad to the casual fans who paid good money to see championship-level boxing.
IF THE ROLES WERE REVERESED
I am interested in how the fight would have been perceived if say, Mayweather headbutted Ortiz in such a fashion and then was knocked out similar to how he did Ortiz. Would the public call Ortiz a cheap shot artist and a phony? Somehow I don’t think anyone would have any issue with it. Plenty of guys are “dirty” in the fight game – Ortiz started a street fight and got dealt with. End of story. He deserved it and there was nothing “illegal” or “classless” about it in my humble opinion. — Mike
Mike, it wasn’t illegal but it was absolutely classless. What kind of dysfunctional household or environment did you grow up in NOT to think that what Mayweather did was classless?
And what’s with all this “street fight” and “Ortiz deserved it” talk? Who are you supposed to be with all this talk of street justice and absolute retribution? Are you a gangster? A Jihadist?
Hardcore fans and boxing insiders are getting carried away with their defense of Mayweather’s actions and damning of Ortiz’s. I’m reading way too many references to “the streets” in explaining what happened.
To borrow my all-time favorite sound bite from the Howard Stern show (uttered by an old and probably drunk John Wayne) “It’s getting to be re-goddamn-diculous.”
People (especially middle-class boxing writers), please! Stop bringing up “the streets.” What went down between Mayweather and Ortiz was not a damn knife fight on the corner of Crenshaw and Slauson at 3 a.m. It was a pay-per-view championship boxing match at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. There are rules to this sport. Ortiz broke them and he was penalized for it. It’s the referee’s job to enforce the rules, not Mayweather’s. It is Mayweather’s job to protect himself from undue fouls, but the situation was being addressed. Now, did Ortiz open himself up for Mayweather’s retaliation with all of his over-the-top apologies and unprofessional lack of focus? Yes. But he didn’t force Mayweather to throw those two punches. Mayweather had a choice. He was within the rules to catch Ortiz while he was young titleholder’s guard was down, but that doesn’t make it right.
And all talk of “the streets,” “street justice,” or “street whatever” is not going to make it right. Cut it out already, folks. It’s just silly. Even people who actually come from a street background (such as Hopkins, Hasim Rahman, Paulie Malignaggi, and Kevin Cunningham) are beginning to sound like parodies of themselves.
It’s like I’m watching “The Story of Gangstalicious” episode of the Boondocks.
Anyway, you’re wondering if the public would be as hard on Ortiz if he did what Mayweather did and somehow you “don’t think anyone would have any issue with it.” You’re crazy. First of all, who’s calling Mayweather a “cheap shot artist” and a “phony”? Certainly not the sports media and boxing industry. They’re pretty much celebrating what Mayweather did while trying to sound like Thugnificent.
I think Ortiz would get criticized by the media just as much as Floyd is, if not more. The boxing media doesn’t care much for Ortiz. He’s just too spacey, disconnected and aloof for most of us. He got mad at boxing writers (and hardcore fans) for dissing him after the Maidana loss and then he dished out some spite before and after the Berto victory, so a lot fight scribes kind of have it out for him. I don’t think he would get a free pass for any sucker punches.
FLOYD’S LEGAL SUCKER PUNCH
Doug….There was no question of the "legality" of the knockout punch that Floyd delivered. However, in that moment he did make a conscious choice to deliver a knockout punch on a guy with his hands at his side looking at the referee. It was a cowardly move, a sucker punch. He didn't need to do it, he could have and would most likely won the fight fair and square with out those 2 punches. There has been due focus on the "legality" of the punch, however it shouldn't obscure the fact it was a cowardly, classless move that if someone wants to be called the greats of all time, they sure shouldn't and wouldn't engage in that kind of nonsense. Can you envision Robinson, Ali, Duran, among other greats delivering that punch and being so pleased with that outcome? — HG in SC
Hell yeah, I can envision Robinson, Ali and Duran doing what Floyd did! They were from the streets, just like me! They weren’t bitch-ass ‘sportsmen!’ They were O.G. Mack Daddies who punished punk, p___y ass mother f___ers like Vivica Ortiz every time they stepped into the ring.
I am, of course, joking, HG. It’s nice (oops, there’s that word again) to read an email from a boxing fan who isn’t claming Thug Life.
The ring can be a volatile place. Emotions run high when two men are engaged in fisticuffs. Under the right circumstances, I think any boxer, pro or amateur, can crack and do what Ortiz did or what Mayweather did. However, I don’t believe Robinson, Ali or Duran would have done what Mayweather did if they were dominating a 7-to-1 underdog as completely as Floyd was Ortiz.
What up dougie,
I tried writing to you for Monday’s mailbag but all that would come out were vulgarities and obscenities. So instead of sending you a cuss word laced email, I waited till today to write to you and all I will say is WTF! It’s clear now that Victor Ortiz can win all the fights in the world but as long as he’s fighting the “big one” he will fold under pressure every time. What really pissed me off was his after party he had shortly after accepting he got cheated out of making it a competitive fight.
If Mayweather actually does pursue a fight with Amir Khan and Pacquiao and LOSES both, I will for as long as I live not hate on him and admit he’s top 20 G.O.A.T for taking three extremely tough challenges at the twilight of his career. Until then, F**k that bum.
Writers, media, fighters were all furious Tim Bradley got stripped of his title. The only person jumping for joy? Bradley. He now gets to pursue an “easier” fight with Erik Morales, yay!
All the best and I’m pretty close to giving up on boxing myself. — Adrian H. Milwaukee, WI
Don’t give up, Adrian. Mayweather only fights once every 18 months, and he’ll probably retire for good once he feels his timing beginning to slip (probably two fights from now, sometime in 2015).
Morales? Bradley’s got bigger fish to fry. He might get that shot at Pacquiao that Mayweather doesn’t seem to want.
I would also be impressed if Mayweather fought Khan and then Pacquiao. The Khan fight I can see happening. I don’t see him fighting Pacquiao unless PacMan gets wobbled or something against JM Marquez.
Ortiz can still make for good fights over the next four or five years. So what if he loses the big ones? Tommy Hearns and Ferando Vargas often lost the “big ones.” That didn’t mean they weren’t worth watching. Just remember to hit the mute button during Ortiz’s post-fight interviews and you’ll enjoy his fights.
Just a quick question. How did Pacquiao get rated above Mosley at Welterweight before Mosley fought Mayweather? I know he had just knocked out Cotto but Mosley had just done a job on Margarito to become, as Jim Lampley put it, "the number 1 Welterweight in the world".
Anyway, thanks for the great articles and keep up the awesome work. Sincerely. — Waseem Hassen, Cape Town, South Africa
My guess is that the editorial board was more impressed with Pacquiao’s first two welterweight bouts (a eighth-round TKO of Oscar De La Hoya in December of 2008 and the 12th-round stoppage of Cotto in November of ‘09) than Mosley’s last two 147-pound bouts at the time (a 12-round decision loss to Cotto in November of ‘07 and the ninth-round TKO of Margarito in January of ‘09).
Defeating Cotto, who beat Mosley, and greater activity may have factored into their decision.
Doug Fischer can be emailed at email@example.com