Doug Fischer

Dougie’s Friday mailbag

SUPER WELTERS

What’s up Douglas?

Wonder if Adrian Broner’s still hiding under his momma’s bed after that particular nasty smash-down Marcus Maidana unloaded on his sorry ass? I’m sorry to kick the poor shell-shocked bastard while he’s still cringing but I agree with the masses in that beatdown was way overdue. Especially after the way Broner s___ on the whole boxing world. And people in general. And never mind how THE RING had him rated too high. No one overrated Broner more than Broner himself! Let’s see him bend over and kiss his own ass now!

Okay, I’ll back off from the guy. Moving onto Maidana not only does he get my gratitude, he also gets my vote for Comeback of the Year. Yeah, I know that there’s been bigger comebacks in the sport. But up until last year Maidana was that guy who failed to finish off the weak-chinned Amir Khan and tired old Eric Morales prior to being the same guy who got out-grappled by Devon Alexander. Now he’s the guy who nearly decapitated Josito Lopez and took care of The Problem. Not too shabby huh? And wasn’t Lopez as well as Broner both favored to beat him?

As for Keith Thurman-Soto Karass I guess you were right in stating that Karass was a gate-keeper at best even though I completely disagreed at first. Both of us however hit the nail on the head regarding Thurmo. He’s the real deal. He took a real heavy shot in the first round, shrugged it off and completely went to town on the world’s toughest gate-keeper. S___, other punchers like Andre Berto and even Maidana weren’t able to batter down Karass that handily. And I was surprised that you were the only guy who brought up that fight this past Monday Mailbag. Time for others to give Thurmo his due. 

So what next? I would definitely love to see all out poundathon between Maidana and Ruslan Provodnikov. Just one problem. I’m not sure if that would lead to good news for Maidana fans. As badly beaten up as Broner was he lasted the full 12 rounds and got in some hard shots himself. I just get the impression that if that were Provo in there with Broner that night The Problem would have been wiped out by the 8th round.

And how would the old guard of Manny Pacquiao, Juan Manuel Marquez, and Tim Bradley do against the power-laden trio of Maidana, Provo, and Thurman. I think that JMM will be too old and worn out to handle those guys. Manny though still has some fight left him even though he’s not the force of nature he was before. Unlike Floyd Mayweather, Pacquiao still knows what a combination is.

Maidana-Bradley would be a very interesting boxer-puncher confrontation. Especially if the fight takes to the trenches. We all know both of these guys love to use their heads like billy goats. Not surprising, considering they both got the biggest noggins seen on welterweights since Carlos Baldimir.

Of course Bradley and Pac-man will instead probably want to tackle each other a second time and that’s fine. Unfinished business there. But what about Bradley-Provo 2? You mentioned before that Timmy’s not going to be stupid enough to brawl it out with the Russian again and will box him instead. True. But Provo’s no cement-footed brawler. What if he chops the ring off Timmy and forces some more trench-warfare on the guy. That’s both the scary and the interesting part.

Anyhow I conclude this whole thing with two questions: In a Super 6 tourney involving Maidana, Bradley, Pacquiao, Thurman, Provo, and maybe Danny Garcia,

who would you favour to take it all? Second, I got a ground and pound myth-match for you: Marcas Maidana versus the Rick Hatton of 2005. Your pick?

You have good Christmas! Cheers to you and your folks!  Be seeing you next year! – Dave

I’ll go with 2005 Hatton over Maidana. I think the peak version of the Mad Hatter would do a little bit of everything – smother, grapple, body attack, stick and move – en route to a close, hard-fought decision.

I’ll think Bradley would win your welterweight Super Six. The Desert Storm has the best combination of athletic talent, skill, smarts, guts, experience and ring versatility of the fighters you’ve included.

I think we’ll eventually see Bradley-Provodnikov II, but it won’t happen until after the Bradley-Pacquiao rematch. It makes more sense (and dollars) for Timmy to go for the PacMan first because it’s a much bigger fight (and probably an easier one, physically speaking). In the mean time, Provo can continue to build his name and audience by defending his WBO 140-pound title on HBO in 2014.

Bradley-Maidana would be a hell of a fight. Too bad they fight in different boxing leagues.

I think Marquez and Pacquiao have been around too long to even think about fighting young monsters like Maidana, Provodnikov and Thurman.

I agree that Provo would have gotten Broner outta there; I’m not so sure he could do the same to Maidana.

Folks are finally coming around on Thurman. MaxBoxing.com’s Steve Kim, one of his biggest critics in 2011 and 2012, gave the Thurmanator his due props in the most recent episode of The Next Round. Part of the change of opinion for many observers was the versatility that Thurman showed in breaking down unbeaten Diego Chaves and one of the fight game’s most reliable gate keepers, Soto Karass, in his last two fights.

Good point about Maidana having the Comeback of the Year in 2013. I think he’s a strong candidate but Jhonny Gonzalez and Pacquiao have better cases.  

 

INTERNATIONAL BROADCASTS

Hi Doug,

Probably a silly question, but why are there different commentators on international broadcasts as opposed to the commentary team used in the U.S? I have often wondered this, as we get them here in Australia, yet if a show is not televised and I obtain it via other methods, it is either Showtime or HBO commentators.

I ask you this question, as you noted in last week’s column that you were on international duties whilst watching Broner have the snot beat out of him (you lucky bastard). – Sam, Bannockburn, Australia

It’s not a silly question but it has a simple answer. The Showtime and HBO broadcasts belong to those U.S. cable networks. When they pay a licensing fee to the promoters to broadcast the fights live they own the U.S. broadcast that they produced with their producers, directors and on-air talent (commentators) – not just for that live telecast but forever. That means the HBO- or Showtime-produced broadcasts stay in the U.S. (and aren’t seen anywhere else without permission from those networks). However, the fight card itself (which includes the undercard bouts that are not on the HBO or Showtime broadcast) belongs to the promoter. So, if a promoter hires its own production company and on-air talent to shoot and commentate on the fights, that production of the broadcast can be picked up by overseas networks that are interested in the card. If the promoter replays its fights on a different network in the U.S., it’s the independently produced broadcast that is used. That’s why you’ll hear Steve Kim’s voice during the clip of the 12th round of Oscar De La Hoya-Shane Mosley I in “Beyond the Glory” documentary on the Golden Boy that aired on Fox Sports, and not Jim Lampley’s.

 

MARCOS MAIDANA

Hi Dougie,

I hope you are enjoying the holidays.

Just wanted to start off by saying good job on the commentary this weekend. I am an American living in Sydney, Australia so I am still getting used to the international telecasts.

I’m sure your email is being bombarded by all the fans who caught the fights this weekend… but hopefully you get a chance to read this.

How about Marcos Maidana? Just to let it be known… I picked Broner, I had absolutely no faith that Maidana had the skill set to get to Broner. I was dead wrong, and I am glad I was. I am not a Broner hater, but he got what he deserved this weekend. His lack of dedication came back to haunt him. He tried to do too much too fast, and the walls came tumbling down. Also, his antics won him no fans, the “hump” in the first round was not just bad sportsmanship, it was lame. His performance after the weakest head-butt of the year was disgraceful and sad to watch. I still think he has talent and a bright future, but he would be very wise to move back down to 140, because as you saw this weekend, 147 ain’t no joke. I would like to see Broner face the winner of Lamont Peterson vs Dierry Jean sometime next year.

As far as Maidana goes, it was a career win for him and he deserves it. He fights his heart out and always gives 100%, but he better enjoy being a welterweight champion while it lasts. He is very limited and has terrible footwork. Now I think is the perfect time to do Matthysse vs Maidana, both guys are never going to be pound for pound, so it’s hard to see either being a bigger draw than they are right now. If they decide not to go that route, then I would like to see Maidana face either Thurman or Shawn Porter.

I have to mention Laurence Cole. He has got to be the worst referee in boxing. He has no ability to control a fight, and let Broner get away with murder all night long. He handled the fiasco in the eighth round very poorly, and never stopped Broner from forearming and pushing. Luckily for him Maidana got the win, and people will quickly forget how bad of a job he did in there. 

I will close this email out with just a few quick thoughts:

  • Thurman looked great this weekend, would love to see him get a title shot next.
  • Leo Santa Cruz is lucky that HBO barred Golden Boy fighters, because he wants no part of Rigondeaux.
  • Tough outing for Soto Karass, but I would still like to see him against any welterweight contender.
  • Hopkins vs Shumenov looks very likely for next year, very easy work for BHop.
  • I cant wait for Pascal vs Bute, I think Pascal will pull it out. I also wouldn’t be surprised if he upset all of HBO’s big light heavyweight plans by beating Adonis Stevenson as well.

I will cut it off there. Just wanted to say thanks for all the work you did this year, and have a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year. Best. – Matt Jones - http://mbj7944.wordpress.com/  Sydney, Australia

Thanks for the kind words and holiday wishes, Matt. I’ll respond to your quick thoughts in order:

-         Thurman is the mandatory challenger for the WBA belt that Maidana just won, and he shares the promoter and manager (Golden Boy and Al Haymon) with Porter, so I’m sure he’ll get his shot before the end of 2014.

-         Santa Cruz wants a part of any fighter that wants a part of him. I’m not saying he’d have a chance in hell of beating Rigo, but he isn’t afraid to face the Cuban.

-         Steve Kim brought up this welterweight crossroads doozey: Soto Karass vs. Josesito Lopez. I’d pay to see that fight.

-         Hopkins-Shumenov is definitely happening in 2014. I think Hopkins wins that fight. I don’t think he’ll have an easy time with Shumy.

-         I also favor Pascal to beat Bute, and I wouldn’t count him out against Stevenson. He’s athletic, he’s awkward, he can punch, he’s got a good chin and he’s got a battle-tested heart.

Hardcore fans will not quickly forget about Cole’s sub-par officiating this past Saturday.

I think Maidana-Matthysse is a natural and I believe the fight will be made, but not right away. I don’t think Matthysse is done fighting at 140 pounds, and I’m sure he’d like to get back into the win column before taking on a foe as formidable as his countryman. At the start of this year, I loved Matthysse over Maidana, but given how they fought in their last bouts I now see a much closer contest. Maidana’s footwork is still pretty poor (note how he always steps over with his right) but it’s less of a liability thanks to Robert Garcia’s instruction. His overall balance has improved, his combination punching is better and he’s added a decent jab and feints to his tool box. Maidana won’t be a walk in the park for anyone.

Fans can’t go wrong with Maidana vs. Thurman or Porter.

Welterweight ain’t no joke, but neither is junior welterweight, where Danny Garcia, Matthysse and Provodnikov dwell. Broner won’t have any easy nights if he’s facing the best of either division (and it should be noted that he never faced the best of the 130-pound division and only fought one top-five lightweight, Antonio DeMarco). However, if Jean beats Peterson for the IBF 140-pound title, I think the Canadian upstart would make an interesting junior welterweight opponent for Broner. (Peterson would be real test for the young former titleholder, but I know they are very close and probably would not want to fight.)

 

POUND FOR POUND

Good mrng Doug,

I have a simple quick and easy question for you. What was the big hype for Adrian “the s**tbag” Broner? He hardly ever made weight for his fights and just beat up little guys that made the weight and he never cared, example his twinkee picture! How does that justify a Ring pound for pound ranking but my boy GGG isnt anywhere to be found in the top 10! Now that’s a shame, if GGG was 147 I would put my house, wife, and 3 kids as well as the cars that GGG would destroy Adrian the s***bird within 2 rnds and isnt that the point of the pound for pound rankings. Just saying……… Thanks for the time and love your articles. You the man Doug!!!! – Daniel

There is no point to Pound for Pound ranking other than a pastime and point of debate for the geekiest of hardcore fans. Yeah, some folks rank the pound-for-pound “elite” based on who they think would beat whoever if weight wasn’t a factor but it’s that kind of weak criteria that put Broner in THE RING’s pound-for-pound (and higher than he deserved in some people’s divisional rankings). Broner looked unbeatable at 130 and 135 pounds when he had the edge in size. That’s why accomplishments should always be the key criteria in any ranking system, pound for pound or divisional. And by the way, going on accomplishments, your boy (and mine) GGG doesn’t yet merit a pound for pound ranking.

 

CHINO COULD BE BRONER’S SALIDO

Hey Doug,

Broner vs Maidana what a fight. I have to admit while I am not a fan of Mr. Bump-n-Grind I thought he was going to win. Some of the things that became evident with this loss is that Broner’s power is just not there, not saying that he has none but he’s definitely not KO’ing anyone (not named Khan) without throwing more than 5 punches a round. 

Now he’s calling for an immediate rematch, bad idea. Someone should sit him down and show him JuanMa Lopez vs Orlando Salido 1 & 2. That’s what I see playing out if he chooses to fight Chino again. 

Last about this fight I would like to bring up is how terrible of a job Ref Cole did. I mean all around he pretty much let these guys do whatever. Below the belt line punches, pushing, face palming, and holding while punching was going on every round and all he ever did was take 1 point away. He gave Broner like 3 stern warnings about pushing but refused to take a point and did absolutely nothing when Broner punched after the bell. Both men used a little dirty fight but the pushing was so blatant it deserved a point deduction. 

Ok, last but not least what’s your take on Pacman being named Floyd’s mandatory and how do you see this playing out? Have a good Holiday man! – Dave, Hazleton, Pa

I see Mayweather vacating his WBC welterweight title.

OK, it’s pretty clear that hardcore fans thought Cole did a terrible job. Since both guys were being rough, I didn’t have too much of a problem with the privileged Texan’s officiating (or non-officiating) until he took a point away from Maidana in the eighth round.

Maidana could very well be Broner’s “Salido.” And a second bruising fight with the Argentine punisher in a short period of time could very well ruin Broner as the rugged Mexican veteran seemingly ruined Lopez.

Broner and his brain trust are faced with a serious quandary.

 

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT UNIFICATION

Hey Doug,
With the recent talk of Bernard Hopkins wanting to unify the 175-pound titles, it got me to thinking – at one time, Bernard had all 4 major belts when he was the Middleweight Champ of the World (did he have The Ring title as well?) and if he were able to repeat that feat at 175, well…has any fighter in history ever been the undisputed Champ with ALL the belts in two different weight classes?
 
If the answer is yes, who has done it?
 
If the answer is no and if Hopkins were able to do it, it would seem like the perfect ending to an already unbelievable career. He could retire (without defending) and walk off into the sunset on the highest note possible while taking his list of accomplishments to quite possibly a level that no one would ever be able to equal.
 
Thoughts? – Brad
 
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anybody who has won all of the major titles in two weight classes since the divisional championships were split up among three or four sanctioning organizations.
 
Bernard Hopkins (at middleweight) and Joe Calzaghe (at super middleweight) are the only two champs that I can think of who won all four titles – the WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO. (And yes, both men also earned THE RING titles en route to unifying the four belts.)
 
I must note that old timers, such as Bob Fitzsimmons, Tony Canzoneri and Henry Armstrong, won undisputed championships in three weight classes during their eras (Hammerin’ Hank held ‘em at the same time for a brief period), which only had one world title in eight weight divisions.
 
But in the era of multiple belts, it doesn’t seem like the elite division hoppers are interested in unifying more than one weight class. Sugar Ray Leonard unified the belts (WBC and WBA – the IBF and WBO didn’t exist yet) at welterweight, but was content to win one title at junior middleweight, middleweight, super middleweight and light heavyweight. Michael Spinks unified titles (WBC, WBA and IBF) at light heavyweight and had the opportunity to win unified titles at heavyweight when he fought Mike Tyson, but we all know how that went.
 
Pernell Whitaker unified belts at lightweight (WBC, WBA and IBF) but not at junior welterweight, welterweight or junior middleweight. Roy Jones Jr. unified belts at light heavyweight (WBC, WBA and IBF) but not at middleweight, super middleweight or heavyweight.
 
Other pound-for-pound kings – such as Julio Cesar Chavez, Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather – never unified more than two major belts in a given division.
 
So, yeah, if B-Hop were to win all four major belts at 175 pounds, that would be a very big deal.

 

CINCY NATIVE STILL LOOKING FOR BOXER TO BE PROUD OF

Hey Dougie,

Just watched Broner embarrass himself. For such a great boxing city I can’t feel but a little embarrassed to call Cincy home. To be open, I’m 28. Ezzard Charles outside of YouTube is just a street near the museum center to me. With that said, our recent history leaves little to hang your hat on.

Tim Austin, tons of outside the ring baggage that sadly drags down what he did inside of it. Far too often where there is smoke there is fire. Even though not convicted on the worst of it… the bad taste remains.

Aaron Pryor will always have his special water.

Ricardo Williams, ‘nuff said.

Even Rau’shee Warren, undefeated as a pro but can’t crack an egg. His Olympic achievements were record setting yet ended on a “I lost my contact” excuse.

Then you have Broner. You could call me a Broner fan. I wanted the hometown kid to win and he seemed to have great potential and talent…. Then he opened his mouth. When you’re that much of a douchebag you better back it up. He not only was beaten by Maidana he was silenced and humbled when he ran to the locker room to avoid cashing the check his mouth made but his fists couldn’t cash.

I don’t know where Broner goes from here. He obviously doesn’t have welter power. Even worse than that he’s a slow starter who doesn’t throw enough. Between Daniel Ponce De Leon and Maidana the “blueprint” is out on how to beat him… Ponce just didn’t have the power. I also think that Broner is the type that after such a loss he may mentally not come back.

24 is early to declare someone done, but I don’t know. His next fight or two will be telling but I’m thinking he’s more Jeff Lacy than Kostya Tszyu.

Broner came in cold. His normal slow start and Maidana jumped on him. I’m not sure he ever recovered. I thought the key was to pound Maidana to the body but after you lose the first 2 rounds and get dropped, body shots kinda go out the window.

Talk me down Dougie, with the mouseketeers beating my Bearcats soundly and now this I’m on the ledge. Pissed off in Cincy. – Nate Hiatt

Come off the ledge, Nate. Broner f___ed up, but it’s too early to toss him into the same “Wasted/shamed talent from Cincy” category as the fighters you mentioned. (By the way, you forgot to include former WBA heavyweight titleholder Tony Tubbs, who should replace poor Rau’shee on your list).

He has a hard road ahead of him because, as you stated, the blueprint to beating has been exposed and his confidence will no doubt take a hit due to the way he lost and the manner in which he reacted to it. However, some positive things were exposed during the hard 12 rounds he went with Maidana, such as his ability to take a punch, his recuperative powers, and his resolve to climb out of a hole and finish a grueling distance fight.

I thought the fight was close, seven rounds to five, or 114-111, as Showtime’s Steve Farhood scored it. I think it was a winnable fight if Broner would have entered the ring with the proper respect and game plan.

Maybe he’ll get it right in a rematch next year. He doesn’t have a drug problem (as Pryor and Tubbs had), he’s not tied up in a serious court case (as Austin and Williams were), and he’s young enough to rededicate himself to the sport.

Maybe he’ll turn out to be the next Jeff Lacy or Naseem Hamed and never get back on track after his first loss, or maybe he’ll eventually rebound – even if he loses his rematch to Maidana – the way Marco Antonio Barrera and Vernon Forrest did despite back-to-back losses to Junior Jones and Ricardo Mayorga.

We’ll probably know for sure before this time next year.

 

 

Photo / Naoki Fukuda

Email Fischer at dougie@boxingmailbag.com. Follow him on Twitter @dougiefischer

 

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